Those of you who read my blog have probably noticed that I haven't been very active in quite some time. In fact, I have not been very active with the 9/11 Truth Movement in general over the past several months. I have not been to TruthAction, TruthMove, 911blogger, or any other sites I used to frequent, nor have I engaged (in any significant detail) in debate regarding the matter. There is a reason for all of this.
I wrote an article some time ago about how psychological bias is inevitable. It's simply human nature to let your own way of thinking shape what you see. Experience shapes perception just as perception shapes experience. In spite of this, I've always strived to be as neutral as possible, and not let personal philosophies or preconceived notions interfere with the information that is given to me. I've been known to drastically alter my position on a variety issues, even my way of thinking in the grand scheme of politics has shifted from being strongly liberal to independent to left-leaning libertarian to being mildly liberal. I'm a young person. I'm only 20. It is expected that it should take some time to solidify my political philosophy.
That pattern is rather consistent with my involvement in The 9/11 Truth Movement. I've talked about it before, the "Conspiracy High". When I first became involved, I bought the whole thing hook, line, and sinker. As time went on, I began to see fallacies, inconsistencies, and general falsehoods that led me to abandon certain notions. Most notably, I have described in the past my prior beliefs that no plane struck the Pentagon. Relatively quickly, I turned from this. I stayed a supporter of Alex Jones for quite some time, but now I acknowledge him for the nutcase that he is. I, like many of my comrades, was ecstatic when the nanothermite paper came out by Jones et al. Eventually, however, it became clear that the paper had a serious credibility issue, and I have since dropped it. I still considered controlled demolition likely. Now I'm not so sure.
We all have doubts. There is always one issue that you think twice about. You are sure you're right, you believe what you say, but something reminds you that then again, maybe you're not. Maybe you're wrong. I'm sure most people in the 9/11 Truth Movement have had this feeling from time to time, and I'm certainly included in that regard. But in the end, I've always found myself drawn to the same conclusion. Still, I couldn't shake the feeling that I was being influenced. After all, I spent a good chunk of my time reading material from other 9/11 Truth groups/individuals. I felt the only way to fairly reflect on these doubts was to pull back from the issue as much as possible. I did not involve myself with truthers, nor debunkers. I wanted to let the evidence and information circulate in my head, so I, myself, could form a conclusion.
It was, somewhat bizarrely, only a few days before Bin Laden's death that I thought I made up my mind.
All of those things I mentioned, those beliefs that have waned with time, were never the things that kept me pinned to the movement. It was the documented, factual evidence. I've talked about it before, especially in my article “Controlled demolition in activism”, and why I think it should be the primary focus of the 9/11 Truth Movement. These were things that always came back to me and made me say, “Okay, so I accept that I was wrong in this matter. But this here is indisputable. Debunkers can speculate all day, but we'll never truly know these answers without an investigation”. That, after all, was what the Truth Movement was [supposed to be] all about. This line of thinking had worked for a time, but absence from the 9/11 Truth scene left me circling around the same problem.
When making an extraordinary claim, one requires extraordinary evidence. This is something debunkers have said before to 9/11 activists, and I've always agreed with it. We ARE making the claim, we SHOULD provide the evidence. And I always thought that we had it. I've been more than happy to point out the various questions that need answering. Somehow, it's only recently I've only realized the truth. It is a somewhat ironic discovery given my involvement in the atheist community, in which we have similar standards regarding positive evidence.
Absence of evidence is not a basis for building a conclusion, and that's all that these questions really are: absence of evidence. Why did they fail to intercept the planes? Why was nobody fired or reprimanded for the massive failure on 9/11? Why did they lie about this? Why did they lie about that? I could go on and on, but in the end, the truth comes down to this: We don't know. The reason I have treated questions as evidence is because I've had no answers and thus been presupposing them. I don't know why everything happened the way it did. I can't prove complicity by pointing out a lack of an answer. When one asks a question and does not receive an answer, that is a decent reason to form suspicions. It is not an excuse to form a conclusion. We do not need to fill in the blanks.
Some of these questions may seem as though they can not possibly be answered without revealing corruption. Assuming this is true, it means nothing in the long run. Governments are corrupt. Governments lie. That's what they do. That does not necessarily equal complicity. As a 9/11 truther, that was likely difficult for me to see as my “way of thinking” was interpreting the information a certain way where it seemed the only reasonable way to interpret it. Unintentional bias, but bias all the same.
I still have questions. I still have suspicions. The difference is that for the first time I am seeing these questions as just questions. I would still like to have them answered. If a new investigation is carried out, I will support it, as it would be fair. I mean no malice towards the 9/11 Truth Movement. I maintain the stance I have always taken: I will go where the evidence takes me. The 9/11 Truth Movement has made an extraordinary claim. They do not have extraordinary evidence. Unless such a thing happens in the foreseeable future, I can no longer affiliate myself with this organization.
I have no shame in this, no embarrassment, no humiliation. I believed what I believed because at the time it made sense to me. I have re-evaluated my position, and I see no cause for shame in that. My only such regret is anyone else who I have convinced of this position. I can think of a couple friends of mine who are likely candidates. Well, they are free to think for themselves and come to whatever decision they wish. 9/11 Truth has been a big part of my life for many years. Politically, it was the single-biggest issue for me. While it may be hard to cast away something that has helped define me, I can not, in good conscience, maintain my status as a 9/11 truther when there is no evidence of the position. If 9/11 was an inside job, then that conclusion is unattainable with the current body of evidence, as far as I'm concerned. I see this as a test of my own integrity.
I rarely have ever admitted I was wrong, not because I was stubborn, but because I was right. I keep myself informed on many issues, and when it comes time to lay the cards down I am usually right. But sometimes I am wrong. It's been five and a half years since I became a part of the truth movement. Five and a half years of fighting for the truth. Five and a half years later, I admit I was wrong.
-Kamen Fattorusso
While I have no intentions of updating the site, I will not delete anything. Everything will stay up as normal. I rarely delete anything I write, even if it's no longer applicable. If you wish to contact me, I will not be checking the comments section with any frequency, so you can do so in the following ways:
E-mail: arcterusgnu@yahoo.com
AIM: Arcterus52
MSN:arcterus@live.com
Youtube Channel: youtube.com/Truescar
Facebook: Kamen Fattorusso
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I FEEL WHAT YOUR SAYING BRO
ReplyDeletehttp://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5127/truthck.jpg
The last bs with Jones magical machines buried the hatchet. People warned about this but no one listened. For record IMO the gov is at least guilty of reckless incompetence BUT aint no way this so called Truth Movement's gonna get justice the way it is. Only don't make the same mistake trusting the SLC slimey fucks. There are better debunkers. Go to JREF. Its a good mixed crowd.
Peace.
FDR
Arcturus, what you've witnessed is the death of MIHOP, and various MIHOP leaders falling from grace. This was to be expected. I don't know why you would conclude from this that the 9/11 Truth Movement was wrong. However, this is not to say I don't understand your departure.
ReplyDeleteIt's just that... the 9/11 Truth Movement has been hijacked by lesser minds since its inception.
Acturus, mind you, I predicted OBL was alive on TA in February, and even wondered out loud (sarcastically) why we weren't sending a team of commandos into Pakistan to get him. I implied that the United States was too invested in the War on Terror to terminate its justification personified. It seems Obama chooses a slightly different course than Bush.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, your victory lap is woefully premature. The transformations you're seeing are being brought about by responsible 9/11 researchers who reject both your lies and the lies of 'truthers'.
JREF? JREF is a conformity enforcing echo chamber full of incompetent dilettantes, militarists and fawning hanger-ons. A fine example of the disastrous consequences of pathological handwaving and pseudoskepticism.
Pentagon debunking has been done much more efficient by non-debunkers (such as Russel Pickering, Jim Hoffman, John Farmer, Frank Legge, Warren Stutt, Adam Larson, Arabesque, Jeff Hill, James Dorman and myself) than by any self-styled 'debunker' at JREF's forum of frustrated adolescent hermits and foolhardy know-it-alls.
"Anonymous, your victory lap is woefully premature. "
ReplyDeleteWTF? Victory lap? Where do you get that? Read barfola disgust. There are no winners here. Only the harsh truth of a lost cause when its staring you in the face.
BTW JREF is NOT the conspiracy subforum, though its understandable why people think so. Mostly because SLC encourages it. Take time to read the whole site.
And alla names you list? Yeah your right about that, cuz those are the kinda people I was talking about when I wrote "People warned about this but no one listened." Fat lot a good it did. -_-
FDR
Arcterus, framing the quest of the 9/11 family members for truth and justice in terms of "extraordinary claims" may provide you with a rationale for abandoning them, but it's not a fair characterization of the issue.
ReplyDeleteYou admit that many questions remain unanswered, that the questions justify suspicion, and that you still want answers. That makes you a truther whether you understand that or not.
You seem to believe that the fact that we can not form conclusions is a reason not to have an honest investigation. If police detectives had that attitude, every murder would become a "cold file" before the body was even removed from the crime scene.
You had an excessive faith in theories, and when you lost your faith, instead of settling for an honest and mature and scientific attitude you bought into a cynical construct being peddled by dishonest people: governments are corrupt, we'll never know and we can't expect to know, and that's OK.
It's not OK. If we can't prove "inside job" so what? Is this about exposing some spy-novel conspiracy or is it about demanding accountability, credibility, and honest science from our putatively democratic institutions?
"I don't know why you would conclude from this that the 9/11 Truth Movement was wrong."
ReplyDeleteUh...it's not? What article were you reading?
"You admit that many questions remain unanswered, that the questions justify suspicion, and that you still want answers. That makes you a truther whether you understand that or not."
Wrong. I would take the answers if they were offered. I no longer seek them because I do not believe that such answers would supply any significant detail.
"You seem to believe that the fact that we can not form conclusions is a reason not to have an honest investigation. If police detectives had that attitude, every murder would become a "cold file" before the body was even removed from the crime scene."
Wrong. You have to have a reason to think something nefarious happened to have an investigation. Your analogy would only apply if there was no body, blood, weapon, anything that would suggest foul play. There is nothing to suggest that anything other than the official story is valid. Therefore, no incentive to carry out an investigation. And no, an unanswered question is not a reason. If we opened up investigations every time we had a question about something, every murder would be an "ongoing investigation" even when the body is a worm-infested skeleton.
"You had an excessive faith in theories"
Wrong. I do not play with something as useless and insipid as faith. I believed in the 9/11 Truth cause because I believed we had evidence. I no longer think that.
"and when you lost your faith, instead of settling for an honest and mature and scientific attitude you bought into a cynical construct being peddled by dishonest people: governments are corrupt, we'll never know and we can't expect to know, and that's OK. It's not OK."
The honest, mature, and scientific attitude is exactly what I took. I re-examined the evidence and concluded that the official story had merit that that 9/11 Truth Movement lacked. Until you or another member of 9/11 Truth is able to supply legitimate evidence, I will remain at this conclusion.
It's not a question about whether or not it's okay. It's an issue about whether or not the lies or corruption mean anything pertaining to the issue. This is the way things are. Governments lie and they are corrupt. It's not desirable, but it's true. Using this fact as a basis for a new investigation when several have already been done is nothing short of ridiculous.
"If we can't prove "inside job" so what? Is this about exposing some spy-novel conspiracy or is it about demanding accountability, credibility, and honest science from our putatively democratic institutions?"
Take a long, hard look at the 9/11 Truth Movement. Tell me, where do you see any credibility or honest science?
The truth is that the 9/11 Truth Movement has nothing. Zip. Nada. Not a single shred of positive evidence to back up it's assertions. Why would I stay to fight for such a cause?
Anyway, you guys, like I said, I'll only be checking the comments section every now and then, so if you want an immediate response from me, drop me an e-mail or use one of the other contact methods I supplied above.
Great post!
ReplyDeleteI felt the same way about the JFK Assasination as Truthers do about 9/11. Then I went to Dallas and stood on the grassy knoll. There it dawned on me that it was an easy shot from the 6th floor with that rifle. I also realized that anyone standing behind the picket fense would have stood out like Bullwinkle in every picture.
I realized that the so-called experts either didn't know what they were talking about, or that they were lying to advance their personal agendas.
That happened in 1996, and I'd spent 15 years buying books about the assassination and eating it all up.
When 9/11 happened I was already watching for the conspiracies to surface. Sure enough they were already spreading as talking-points via fax and e-mail. Stories about dancing Israelis, the news running footage of celebrating Palestinians that was actually four years old, rumors of mystery men stopped by police-then released after phone calls from higher-ups.
It was all taking shape before the rubble at ground zero had stopped burning.
Anyway, you sound level headed, and reasonable. So I wish you luck.
Arcterus, do you feel that you were being conned by the Truth Movement or do you feel more that you were conning yourself? Or is neither one of those accurate?
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to answer, I'm just curious by what process people become ex-Truthers.
@MGF Thank you. Yes, it's easy to get caught up in things like these. Studies also show that people who are exposed to information that contradicts their stance will generally become more attached to that stance and more motivated to defend it, so that doesn't help matters.
ReplyDelete@RGT I'm not sure I'd say either one, but I suppose conning myself would be the better fit. I just don't like the connotation of "conning myself". I'd say it was simply the fact that I got into it when I was very young and my skeptical/analytical nature hadn't fully developed until I was in the middle of it all. By then, my experience and current beliefs were shaping my perception of information, reinforcing a belief that I only realized didn't make sense until I took a step back.
Fair enough, thank you for answering. If you're 20 now then you were about 16 during the Golden Age of 9/11 Truth. We tend to be both stubborn and gullible at that age. That's a good combination for weird beliefs to take hold.
ReplyDeleteThere don't seem to be many ex-truther stories out there, but Mikey Metz relates a similar experience.
Arcterus, I wonder how much you've read on the subject beyond the "Controlled Demolition" argument. If you based your beliefs on what was being said by the CD crowd, then I don't blame you.
ReplyDeleteAnd what's your crowd, Jon? The Chain Yourself To A Fence Until The Questions Go Away crowd?
ReplyDeleteNo, the "every investigation we had into 9/11 was compromised and corrupt, and elements within our Government and others have more than earned the title of suspect for the crime of 9/11" crowd. As well as the "day that created the "Post-9/11 World" deserves real justice and accountability" crowd. As well as the "victims family members as well as the people of Earth deserve real justice and accountability for what happened that day" crowd.
ReplyDeleteHate to break it to you Arcterus, but the cause of 9/11 Justice is not about proving that "9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB" like Alex Jones and the debunkers have tried to lead everyone to believe.
ReplyDeleteJon, you're a lousy activist. You're all talk. I doubt that your cheap platitudes bring comfort to anybody.
ReplyDeleteI helped to bring more attention to the 9/11 First Responders than most people on this planet, and the James Zadroga 9/11 Health & Compensation Act was passed. I had something to do with that. Lousy activist indeed.
ReplyDeleteNo, Jon. You have screamed "Look at me, I am important" more than most people on the planet. The first responders became an issue for you only after you realized you could get attention for talking about them.
ReplyDeleteYour defense of fake 9/11 family members is equally hypocritical.
Actually, the first responders became an issue for me after I saw Jenna Orkin give a presentation on the environmental impact of 9/11 in 2004. After James Zadroga died, I started an archive on the environmental impact of 9/11 that was update daily for 5 years. I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to "fake 9/11 family members" anonymous internet troll. Ego and prestige had nothing to do with me helping the responders. Morality, however, had everything to do with it.
ReplyDeleteIf you've got something better to do, Jon, go do it. While you're doing it, see if you remember a close associate of yours claiming to be Mark Rothenberg's nephew. And then admitting he wasn't.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, did you guys think you were going to get away with such a stupid maneuver?
Oh... heh... the Adam Syed/Kevin Barrett incident concerning Cosmos. If Cosmos knew him his entire life, and referred to him as "Uncle Mickey," then it is not a lie for him to say that he was his nephew. I had people that were close friends of the family that I referred to as "cousins." It's a non-argument.
ReplyDelete"Point out every inconsistent thing people have said." I'm sure you remember writing that. Interesting how defensive you become when faced with your own standards.
ReplyDeleteSo what do Rothenberg's daughters think of Cosmos? He's a lifelong family friend, after all. Do they even know him? Or do they just know that some dubious figure is trading on their father's name? Have you ever thought how that makes them feel?
No, you probably don't give a rat's ass. You've got your list of People Who Have More Than Earned the Title of Suspect (even though you don't know what they're suspected of doing). You're too busy engaging people in conversation and then getting irritable when they don't agree with you. And sneering the phrase "justice and accountability" at anybody who will listen to you. And making apologies for people who shit on the family members. Run along, Jon. Go do your important work.
Arcterus, you have written a very clear essay on the way our minds work when confronted with extraordinary claims. You say "When making an extraordinary claim, one requires extraordinary evidence. This is something debunkers have said before to 9/11 activists, and I've always agreed with it. We ARE making the claim, we SHOULD provide the evidence."
ReplyDeleteWell we have the evidence. There is absolutely no way that a building like WTC7 can free fall vertically if the support columns are not all simultaneously severed. David Chandler says it was for 2.5 seconds. NIST says it was for 2.25 seconds. It makes no difference. It is about 8 stories.
The thing that makes this evidence compelling is that the public has possession of it. Any 20 year old can get the videos, study them one frame at a time, and calculate the acceleration.
Then there is the behaviour of the red chips in the calorimeter. When warmed slowly to 430 degrees C it suddenly created enough heat to produce molten iron, melting point 1500 deg C. There is absolutely no way this could occur if there was not a highly reactive material present, and such material cannot possibly be present in a simple gravity driven collapse. It had to be put there by someone.
Don't give up yet.
First of all, Jon Gold, I was not married to CD when I was in the truth movement. I freqently spoke against it's promotion on TruthAction and I even wrote an article about it here, which I linked to in this article. Even if your memory had failed you and you didn't click the link, I still made it perfectly clear that CD was not my main issue when I said:
ReplyDelete"All of those things I mentioned, those beliefs that have waned with time, were never the things that kept me pinned to the movement. It was the documented, factual evidence. I've talked about it before, especially in my article 'Controlled demolition in activism', and why I think it should be the primary focus of the 9/11 Truth Movement."
So, you know, get over yourself.
Second, between you and Brian, I'm getting sick of having to re-iterate that this has nothing to do with proving inside job. You and the rest of the truth movement have absolutely no basis demanding justice in any regard. You don't have a shred of positive evidence to suggest anything needs answering. The entire existence of the 9/11 Truth Movement is based on an absence of evidence.
Frank Legge, I appreciate your relatively courteous response, as I didn't intend any malice towards 9/11 Truthers in this article. Having said that, I completely disagree with your claim. I have read the debunking of these same arguments you make and I find them sound.
"You don't have a shred of positive evidence to suggest anything needs answering. The entire existence of the 9/11 Truth Movement is based on an absence of evidence."
ReplyDeleteSomething as recent as Sibel Edmonds and the September Eleventh Advocates' effort regarding Behroor Sarshar dicates the need for answers. That's just one example. But... whatever.
Oh yea... Sibel Edmonds, and everything associated with her story dictates the need for answers. Every whistleblower that was ignored or censored by the 9/11 Commission dictates the need for answers. I don't think you know what you're talking about.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. You never claimed I didn't know what I was talking about when I was a truther. You never seemed to have a problem when I talked about these very issues. Only now, when I've changed my opinion, am I suddenly uneducated. Why? Because you can't stand the fact that I disagree with you. Quite frankly, Jon, you're full of yourself. You're the kind of person who wouldn't, for a moment, suspect you were wrong. I mean, just look at the arrogance you emanate. "I don't think you know what you're talking about." I haven't even had a chance to respond, dumbass. It's just completely nonsensical to bring up a subject and say I don't know what I'm talking about when I haven't talked about the subject yet. But it makes perfect sense to you, because you haven't even considered the possibility that I can counter your points.
ReplyDeleteBut anyway, enough with your psychology. Let's get to the points you bring up.
"Something as recent as Sibel Edmonds and the September Eleventh Advocates' effort regarding Behroor Sarshar dicates the need for answers."
Sibel Edmonds is useless. Her letter to the 9/11 Commission is based on testimony that doesn't match her claims. Even if it did match, she was a low-level contract translator and not exactly teeming with smoking gun credibility.
Ultimately, that's irrelevant, as Behrooz Sarshar's article from 2004 does not match with the claims made by Sibel Edmonds. That hasn't stopped her, of course.
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/02/01/the-fbi-%E2%80%9Ckamikaze-pilots%E2%80%9D-case/
I could point out all the inconsistencies, but I'll point out the one most damning.
"No specific dates; not any that they were aware of. However, they said the general timeframe was characterized as ‘very soon.’ They think within the next two or three months."
But compare that to the 2004 article:
http://www.breakfornews.com/Sibel-Edmonds3.htm
"According to the law enforcement official, 'there was talk about terrorists
and planes,' but no mention of when or where the attacks might take place."
I find this the most damning because it's not only inconsistent, it's outright contradictory. It says specifically that there was no mention of when the attacks might take place. So where did the time frame come from in this recent article?
Back to your psychology, Jon, I find the reaction I've gotten from truthers very interesting. You are not the first to ignore my history as a truther and pretend I'm uneducated on the subject. I've been trying to figure out why that may be and I keep coming to the same answer. Usually, when somebody leaves the movement, there are two reasons. One reason is a feeling of futility or fear. Jenny Sparks is an example of the former. These reasons have nothing to do with the evidence itself, and so while it may not be encouraged among the movement, it generates more understanding and acceptance. The other reason is that the evidence is no longer compelling. This usually happens to people who are only in the movement for a short time. Only a few months or maybe even days. I fall into this category, but I am an acception in this regard, which makes things difficult. When people leave for this reason, it's easy to say that they were poisoned by disinformation and/or weren't fully eductaed to understand the deeper facts concerning 9/11 Truth. But you can't make that argument with me. Not only was I in the 9/11 Truth Movement for years, but I spent the majority of that time in the "responsible" wing of the movement. TruthAction, TruthMove, 911TruthNews, I was over at that wing. I ignored the CIT losers and spent more attention to people like you.
ReplyDeleteSo how do you cope with this? What I'm finding among you and others is an attempt to re-write my history with the movement. Despite my documented education on the subject, as can be seen at any major site that I was a part of, people like you are attempting to paint me as someone who really wasn't all that well-informed. You are trying to paint me with the same brush you use to paint the people who left in only a short time, even though it has no basis in reality.
This tactic reveals one of two things. It is either a testament to your ignorance or a testament to your incompetence.
Patrick Leahy, Chuck Grassley both said outright that she was credible. The FBI Inspector General said she was credible when they said she was fired for trying to bring the information to the forefront. Vanity Fair, Sunday Times, American Conservative, etc... all considered her credible with their reporting off her. The testimony she was asked to give under oath, shows people think she's credible. The efforts the Bush Administration took to silence her screams credibility. The completely blank 9/11 Commission staff statement of Sibel Edmonds screams credibility. I don't know how much credibility you need. There is an obvious contradiction with Behrooz Sarshar. That was the whole point of Sibel releasing that transcript. Because it DIFFERED from the 9/11 Commission staff statement, and differed from that article you posted as well. The contradiction was the whole point, and why hasn't Behrooz Sarshar spoken out against Sibel Edmonds' latest effort if it was wrong? Anyway... to say there is no evidence to question anything is absurd and wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you go confront Sibel on her website with your concerns? You would be a hero in the debunker community. She's readily available there. And incidentally, if you had ever said to me in any of our interactions while you were a "truther," that "you don't have a shred of positive evidence to suggest anything needs answering. The entire existence of the 9/11 Truth Movement is based on an absence of evidence," rest assured, I would have said you have no idea what you're talking about.
ReplyDeleteGood luck in your endeavors. Wish I could give up.
ReplyDeleteFrom 2007...
ReplyDeletehttp://sibeledmonds.blogspot.com/2007/02/incredibly-credible-sibel.html