Wednesday, January 6, 2010

CIT: Who cares?

I've written several posts in the past over the flawed "evidence" that CIT displays. There was a time when I could debate the CIT evidence for days on end before seeing that their cult-like nature blinds them from things like "science", "corroboration", "Occam's Razor", and all the while using double-standards to convince themselves that they are right.

Who cares?

At this point, the futility of trying to argue with a zealot prevents me from staying in these fruitless arguments for much longer than a couple responses. They're a distraction. A pure, non-fulfilling distraction that can't do anything for the truth movement.

You want to know why? Here's how flawed the CIT evidence is: CIT could be RIGHT and they still wouldn't be able to help the movement. That's right, let's say that CIT is right. About EVERYTHING. The physical evidence was faked. The DNA was faked. The south path witnesses are wrong and the selected testimony from the north path witnesses are right. In contradiction to all science, CIT has reached the true conclusion. But it's not valid! The fact that it's not scientific, the fact that CIT expects people to ignore the inaccurate testimony in favor of testimony purported to be accurate means that it would never fly in a court room.

If a witness places a taxi cab incorrectly, then his testimony is flawed. AND HE IS UNRELIABLE. If a witness says he saw an impact, and your theory involves the plane FLYING OVER the building, then he must be WRONG! About SOMETHING! This means that he is UNRELIABLE. You can't just say insist that some parts are right and some parts are wrong. No judge would take that case. Even if 9/11 Truth wasn't a controversial issue, no judge would consider this evidence. The case would be thrown out faster than you can say "logical fallacies".

So even if CIT is right, their conclusions are not supported by valid evidence. It is composed entirely of cherry-picking. Everything that opposes their selected testimony is faked or invalid, yet in no way infringes upon the credibility of their witnesses. It is depressing that there are so many people who look at this evidence and take it seriously.

Hey, I understand. I've been there. I've mentioned before that when I started in the movement, I was on something of a "high". It became very difficult to filter the legitimate from the dubious. But I've always, under all circumstances, maintained an open mind to alternate ideas, and so I was able, eventually, to evaluate the evidence critically, until I realized it was non-scientific bogus that held no place in a movement seeking truth. Which is the problem. Pride has taken priority over truth. An inability to accept that mistakes were made and conclusions were drawn prematurely has led to CIT's continuing promotion and made it difficult, if even possible, to show their followers that they've been duped. Whereas I have made it a priority in my life to refrain from emotional attachment to any beliefs I hold, CIT, as well as other groups within the movement, have put themselves ahead of the truth they claim to seek.

CIT continues to distract and detract, promoting fallacies and flawed evidence that won't get the movement anywhere. Yet somehow they have followers. Well, fine. CIT and their followers have made it abundantly clear that they're not interested in anything that opposes their theory. So all we can really hope to do is prevent well-meaning people from being sucked into the hype. No more pointless debates, no more wasted time, no more trying to make sense with these people. Let's shift our target audience to people who are not yet exposed. People still trying to make sense of everything. Let's appeal to people who can still be drawn towards critical thinking. All that these CIT debates have accomplished is promotion for CIT. CIT has done nothing for us. Why should we do anything for them?

7 comments:

  1. Hey, pal.
    Good to see you're still active somewhere. I enjoyed reading this. Hope your documentary is being uploaded soon.

    Keep in touch.

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  2. 'There was a time when I could debate the CIT evidence for days on end before seeing that their cult-like nature blinds '

    CULT LIKE? AS i recall they went to great lengths to get and evaluate eyewitness testimony..occams razor is not your personal scalpel.
    I understand you dont like their thesis...but calling names and defamation wont make your cause any moer 'scientific'.

    'You want to know why? Here's how flawed the CIT evidence is: CIT could be RIGHT and they still wouldn't be able to help the movement. That's right, let's say that CIT is right. About EVERYTHING. The physical evidence was faked. The DNA was faked.'

    Now what evidence do you have their is any DNA evidence..or that it came from a sight where we were told the plane had vaporised?

    'The south path witnesses are wrong and the selected testimony from the north path witnesses are right. '

    Ive read Gerard Holmgrens analyis of all the available Pentagon eyewitness testimony...and its clear that a lot of it is dodgy.But your use of the word 'selected' is a bit of fast and loose play, as the south eyewitness testimony is contraditory,and so can only ever be 'selected' to support your thesis.

    Brian

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  3. 'CIT continues to distract and detract, promoting fallacies and flawed evidence that won't get the movement anywhere. Yet somehow they have followers'

    No, No, No, No...the reason they attact 'followers' and you dont, is because their evidence is credible. but cult like resistance esp at 911blogger(who banned CIT and also banned me) has made them subject to vicious attack.

    Brian

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  4. "CULT LIKE? AS i recall they went to great lengths to get and evaluate eyewitness testimony..occams razor is not your personal scalpel."

    No, they went to great lengths to OBTAIN witness testimony. Their evaluation is so biased and flawed it can hardly be called great. This also has nothing to do with Occam's Razor. This is also completely different from their cult-like personality. I've written about how they are cult-like in previous posts, so please educate yourself before spamming my topic.

    "I understand you dont like their thesis...but calling names and defamation wont make your cause any moer 'scientific'."

    Oh get over yourself. This isn't because I "don't like" their thesis. Their thesis is UNSUPPORTED by ANY EVIDENCE, that's my problem. Also, I call them no names except in cases where they rightfully deserve the term and can be proven by evidence, the term "cult-like" for example. This also has nothing to do with being scientific. You need to stop drawing lines where there aren't any dots.

    "Now what evidence do you have their is any DNA evidence..or that it came from a sight where we were told the plane had vaporised?"

    Um...the evidence is publicly available? The 84 victims from Flight 77 were identified by their DNA and five other unidentified strands were found...the same as the number of hijackers aboard Flight 77.

    "Ive read Gerard Holmgrens..."

    I'd say I've won this one already.

    "...analyis of all the available Pentagon eyewitness testimony...and its clear that a lot of it is dodgy."

    Clear only to the CIT nuts who need to find a way to support their agenda.

    "But your use of the word 'selected' is a bit of fast and loose play, as the south eyewitness testimony is contraditory,and so can only ever be 'selected' to support your thesis."

    That's, um, you know...wrong. But even so I find it hilarious as the north path witnesses are so massively contradictory that for some reason it doesn't deserve any attention for that, only the south path witnesses. I think there's a word for that. "Double-standard" comes to mind.

    "No, No, No, No...the reason they attact 'followers' and you dont"

    It's not a "me vs. them" issue. It's a "logic vs. unsupported speculation" issue.

    "is because their evidence is credible."

    Some of their witnesses screw up their testimony on their own without even needing corroboration from other witnesses. I don't see how you consider that "credible".

    "but cult like resistance esp at 911blogger(who banned CIT and also banned me) has made them subject to vicious attack."

    No, CIT brought this upon themselves. They came out with a loony, unsupported, illogical theory and then malevolently attacked anyone who spoke against it, in an ever "cult-like" fashion. They started this war. They can't play the victim.

    ReplyDelete
  5. 'No, they went to great lengths to OBTAIN witness testimony. Their evaluation is so biased and flawed it can hardly be called great.'

    The 'evaluation' comes with followup testimony of the eyewitnesses themselves. So say what you will, your left with attacking the witnesses.

    'Oh get over yourself. This isn't because I "don't like" their thesis. Their thesis is UNSUPPORTED by ANY EVIDENCE, that's my problem'

    in fact most of the evidence supports CIT.,.its the fellows who say flight 77 hit the pentagon who are lacking in evidence

    'Um...the evidence is publicly available? The 84 victims from Flight 77 were identified by their DNA and five other unidentified strands were found...the same as the number of hijackers aboard Flight 77.'

    really ? Youve seen this DNA 'evidence'?And youre qualified to evaluate it...

    'Clear only to the CIT nuts who need to find a way to support their agenda.'

    the terribly weak tactic of calling your critics : 'nuts', 'crazy' 'insane': a wish to do away with the nuisance.

    'That's, um, you know...wrong. But even so I find it hilarious as the north path witnesses are so massively contradictory that for some reason it doesn't deserve any attention for that, only the south path witnesses. I think there's a word for that. "Double-standard" comes to mind.'

    luv that bloviation: 'massively! LOL..The maximialists theory of debate..if you cant make it true...make it bigger!

    'Some of their witnesses screw up their testimony on their own without even needing corroboration from other witnesses. I don't see how you consider that "credible".'

    like who?

    'No, CIT brought this upon themselves. They came out with a loony, unsupported, illogical theory and then malevolently attacked anyone who spoke against it,'

    the 'hes-a-lunatic' tactic only richochets

    'then malevolently attacked anyone who spoke against it'

    your post is a good demo of this tactic. ivenot seen CIT malevolently attack anyone...just the reverse

    AND further to this:

    http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=1525

    Yes..it sucks doesnt it!

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